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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
90
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Posted - 2014.06.08 19:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
hello boys and girls are we sitting comfortably?
then i'll begin.....
first of all everybody here is speaking about having a problem with charge rifles, ishukone rifles (oddly enough no mention of the kal, anybody else read anything into that?).
that is really great.. heres the rub, they are proto weapons.
other weapon types generally are brought into pc at proto level with the majority of players saving their proto gear to be a decent player for their corp. i see no reason that the proto sniper should be any different.
if this were the case the expense of the rifle not it's capabillities should reflect its "low risk" play style eg if a rifle costs 10 mill then people cant afford to keep throwing them at pub matches.
in turn this means that the advanced tier weapons should be the weapons that are selected for pub matches, now look again at attim's table, i ask you what is the problem?
2nd point.
you can't keep punishing every player that picks up a sniper rifle in this game for no real reason, everybody seems to completely overlook the fact that to be competitive against advanced suits a sniper has to use maximum damage at the moment, we have no "p.c fit" as we need those to be decent in a pub match.
ok the red line is an issue for players but this is because people at the moment have no real need to deal with snipers unless you get a good sniper against you they're not a threat they are an inconvenience, people can shoot into the red line easily enough and as for them not being vulnerable, don't even get me started on ads pilots.
snipers do not wish to be stuck in the red lines all the time as i have pointed out more than once WE do not ask for a red line at all! yes we use distance as a shield, we are supposed to, there would be no point to using a sniper rifle inside a building when a shotgun will do better.
all we actually ask for and ask for regularly (with regards to position) is for more vantage points INSIDE the map, NOT the red line. not our fault ccp saw fit to create bowl shaped maps. you cant blame a sniper for using high spots on a map when they provide the best view and therefore the best way of attacking the enemies.
3rd point.
you say about how snipers are low risk... ok
if these changes came about then how many people would suddenly decide that maybe our squad should go and deal with the enemy sniper because he has a charge rifle in much the same way as people hunt a thales user now after a buff like this? i would guess that although the rifles do more damage most snipers would start to get less kills.
4th point
people on here keep mentioning about a calmando sniper with three damage mods.
 this should NOT be the base of damage for sniper rifles, this is the absolute of sniping!!
you are actually saying here that a sniper should have NO options when creating their suit.
how you people expect a sniper to decide to come and play in the easily reached places of the map, with weapons that don't kill using suits with no shield or armour modules astounds me.. i think this attitude is absolutely disgraceful.
no other player type gets forced to use 1 set fit in order to play the game, what happened to the notion of the game being fun for everybody?
not everybody enjoys running around with assault rifles, i am starting to enjoy my heavy fit (cal sentinel, squishy as hell!)
but i will always prefer sniping, not only in dust either and not only against other players, it has nothing to do with cowardice (it's not like I'm actually being shot is it?!) or even gun game (this weekend i had my best heavy round so far of 39-15-6 in an advanced sentinel, i don't have proto yet.)
also damage mods are a bonus that are chosen and skilled into separately to anything else, and as such should not be taken into account when calculating damage for a weapon.
5th point.
I have actually for a little while been saying that the main thing sniper rifles need is a head shot boost i still am of that opinion.
that said i have taken part in the survey and seen the opinions of others and this is what was asked for above all else,
at the moment there is no way that people can HONESTLY say that any sniper rifles other than the charge or thales are in a good place, and even those aren't in a good place for p.c battles.
overall i would say that these changes are not that bad, ok they may seem as though they are ott but you should remember that sniper rifles haven't been touched directly for at least a year. whilst almost everything else has gone through changes that have consistently effected them negatively.
you should also consider that proto rifles should be usable in p.c battles and that a sniper using them has already gone as far as possible with their sp into the role they choose.
these changes would allow snipers more freedom in what to use and allow them to start using their proto weapons where they should be used. there would need to be changes to the cost of rifles to make most snipers not want to throw them away, and i would also say an advanced model charge variant should be introduced too.
and as i already mentioned people will target a sniper that brings a full proto fit out to pub matches as they will too much of a threat to ignore. that should be the case as it is with almost all other support type role in the game. (you would not stand toe to toe out in the open against a fully upgraded tank!)
with regards to the red line.
until there are some major changes with map design and red line function there will be problems with*(not just) snipers in the red line. but that should not be an excuse from other snipers being able to get a place in their pc battle or being able to play competitively with more than one fit |
Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
93
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 19:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
"sniper" is not a role, just like "laser rifle" and "shotgun" are not roles.
For the record, "slayer" is not a role either.[/quote]
I think you'll find that "sniper" is in fact a very important military profession if you want to be pedantic
"laser rifles, combat rifles, etc" are actually weapons and people are not referring to the "sniper rifle" as a role.
you would also be able to say that in dust there are no "roles" as people can put skill into what they like in any type of order without being restricted by any type of "role" restrictions.
however that doesn't change much within in the scope of this conversation.
and once again I wonder whether people would care to venture opinions of the actual aspects related to the sniper rifles instead of just having a little bash at snipers.
example.
"the thales will now do too much damage" a valid concern about the power of a weapon that would in theory be affected.
my best idea here would be to more or less leave the thales alone. it shouldn't do as much damage as the charge rifle at the same time as having a tactical scope anyway, this would place it just above proto tac rifles.
"snipers will use the red line too much"
not really valid in the topic... by which I mean they already do and an increase in damage won't make much of a difference to that, incidentally reducing the damage they do would also push the few that stayed sniping to do it from the red line due to being ineffective at closer range anyway.
"You cannot justify a buff of x%"
A valid point it has regards to the proposed changes.
(already stated my opinion above).
"reducing range according to damage"
I disagree but it is valid it raises points about the extra damage in proportion to being further away.
"reducing range to stop snipers hiding in the red line"
Sorry but not valid, has no relation to proposed changes.
and as snipers are not the only things that hide in the red line this should also be the case for vehicles..
i.e ads can escape swarms by actually outrunning them therefore they use distance as protection, they regularly back off to their red area to hide, and therefore shouldn't be as powerful as they are, also red line rail tanks, also turrets within red zones, also blaster tanks with armour or shield hardeners that will start a hardener to cover their escape to guess where?
point being it is not the problem being addressed here.
 feel free to comment, but please try to be constructive folks. 
you may not like snipers but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be allowed to enjoy whole aspects of the game.
I do not like tanks, ads, shotty scouts, remote explosives or heavies that are better than me at being heavy when I do it! 
but I do not believe any of them should be removed or kept down to a point where they could not be any use in a p.c battle.
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
93
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 14:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
@ arkena, thanks for a well thought out point.
I would just like to point out that something that happens with sniping in terms of time to kill is the whole 'stalker' hunting effect,
I mean that it takes time to find a target then wait to line up a shot, charge up and then wait for the kick to settle down, then charging and lining up and another shot on the same target who now knows it's being shot at takes more time than the first shot did, much more so if you try for headshots.
also when the target gets cover following that first shot you either take time to track the target or find a new one.
time to kill using a sniper rifle isn't quite the same as being a heavy for example,
as a heavy its you find a target, point your gun and fire there's some strafing to help be the person that kills the other player after that you move on or respawn.
there is no following a target that has been spotted within range or waiting for a better shot.
point being that for other rifles the ttk is directly affected by rof and damage output,
for a sniper damage output and rof are important but there are other factors too.
not saying that the buffs are exactly right, etc. just pointing out its not quite just a matter of the time it takes between shots.
even on a ohk there's a high chance that the sniper spent a good few seconds tracking the target before firing.
Again even more so when factoring in headshots. |
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